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| Photo courtesy of Brian Wimer. |
Interview with friends of Elizabeth 'Betsy' Lilitu. By Jackson Landers Including Corey Croson, Catherine Muse, Adam Steffler, Colin Steffler and Yasmine Vielle.
Recorded on 3/20/2016 at Java Java on the Downtown Mall.
[We talked for a long time off-the-record about Betsy before I made sure that everyone was comfortable with me starting the recorder and going on the record.]
COREY CROSON: My name is Cory Croson. I think one of the core things that drove Betsy was a need to be free. A need to explore. It's what drove her out into the world and pushed her to try new things in a way that I don't think that any of us present did. It gave her the drive to jump into things and make it work as the ball was already rolling. A skill that she mastered over time. It gave her the physical drive to be a performer, a dancer, a hula hooper. She's a... she never wanted to feel tied down and she made that work for her. She was always very upfront and you knew how she felt and what she wanted. But she didn't beat you over the head with it, either. She made all of us feel more free too, by pushing us to explore and do things we were afraid to. She always wanted to keep learning, keep doing new things, keep seeing new places. Life was a challenge and an adventure to her and she never backed away from it.
She was family and even when she was halfway across the country I knew I'd see her again soon.
CATHERINE MUSE: When I first met Betsy she was fourteen. Beautiful long blonde hair. Huge, huge smile. Sparking eyes, We met outside on the patio of the [Twisted Branch] Tea House. And I just remember being completely captivated by her. It was an immediate connection. I think we went to Mudhouse after that. I don't think that we were separated. I started hanging out at her apartment, skipping school with her, which led to some bad stuff. But always, always having fun. Right off the bat, she was my sister. My little sister. And we had so many firsts together when we were growing up. So many things that we experimented and got in trouble for. And so many good times. Some hard times, but mostly mostly just the best times of my life. I'll never forget that. I'll never lose that.
[Question from Jackson to Catherine about how she looked shortly before her death compared to a year earlier]
CATHERINE: Well before it wasn't just, it was her looks. Her skin was bad, she was underweight. It was also her personality. She was just kind of, she was muted. It wasn't like her old sparkly self. She was being very selfish. And it was really hard to be friends with her at that time. She got out of jail, I didn't even know. I was at a show, I can't even remember. It was some show at The Ante Room. They were playing all Grateful Dead songs. I saw Betsy in the front row, dancing. And from the back of the room I saw her dreads and I made a beeline up to her. And she gave me the biggest hug and she had gained about thirty pounds since she'd been in. She looked clean and happy and healthy. She had the biggest smile. And she, you know, it was really that immediate first connection again. It was like we were re-meeting each other. She was old Betsy. She was the way that she used to be. And we started hanging out again. But going to lots of shows together. Stuff like that.
COREY CROSON: This is Corey Croson again. Betsy loved dance, hooping, fire performance. She loved art, she loved making art. She loved consuming art. She loved music, she loved travel. She loved making other people smile and bringing them on adventures with her. She was everything that she had wanted to be, whether she knew it all of the time or not. She loved fashion, too. She reinvented her look a ton of different times and she had fun with it every time. She started off with long blonde hair and pea coats and just New England to the bone and I think I have seen more hairstyles and custom-made clothing and patchwork leather pants than anyone else.
[Laughter from around the table]
COLIN STEFFLER: She had that style you wanted to have.
COREY CROSON: Yes, she really did. She had that style you wanted to have.
[Catherine excused herself to leave for work]
ADAM STEFFLER: My name is Adam Steffler. I've known Betsy for the shortest from all the people at this table. But she definitely impacted my life. From being one of the three girls my wife always would bring up in high school as part of a group; Chelsea, Nikki and Betsy. So many stories I heard always started with “so me, Chelsea and Betsy were hanging out, we went and did this nefarious thing,” you know it always sounded real fun. And I met Betsy within a week or two of becoming serious with Colin, who is now my wife. Something you said earlier when you got here was you were talking about how the Daily Progress didn't want to run the obituary and wanted to act like she wasn't a human basically. Or people treat her like she wasn't a human going through this struggle, this addiction. And you know everybody in this restaurant, everyone on the Downtown Mall knows somebody, even if they don't know it, knows somebody who is struggling with some sort of addiction right now.
I don't think there's any way you can say that Betsy wasn't a human. She was full of humanity and she was full of independence and she did a lot of things in her short twenty five years on this world that, like, so many people will never even have the balls to create for themselves or experience. And just so unique in so many ways, from her style, the way she talked, the energy, the freedom. She had a great dog.
And unfortunately she had this pain that stuck with her that she was trying to mask or cure with her use... Like we said earlier it is this continuous cycle. The only way to get out of this pain that you're in is to use again. But then you feel like so guilty about doing it and it's this continuous cycle. I was really glad when I heard when she got out of jail that she was basically clean. And I really hoped that was something she would keep up for a while, forever. But unfortunately it's just one more in a long line of great people. You know from artists and musicians that inspired me growing up, to friends, to Betsy that lost this struggle by going back to the same level of usage they did from before they quit and their body isn't used to it. It's really unfortunate...
Betsy was a human being. Betsy was super unique. Even though I didn't know her in my formative years like these guys knew her, I'll always remember a couple of times that we were at festivals and just experiences we had hanging out and doing stuff around town...
Everyone seemed to know Betsy. Everybody that I know. I wouldn't be surprised if Betsy was the single person in the middle of that circle of contact from this huge scene in Charlottesville. Everybody knew Betsy and everybody could say “we don't know anybody else in common but we knew Betsy in common” and I think she introduced a lot of people and brought a lot of people together. And the fruit of those relationships is going to go on for a long time. People who might not have known each if they had never met Betsy. Its really sad to think the things that, the people she's not going to introduce any more. And the things she's not going to do anymore. I will always have good memories of Betsy. She was a human and she wasn't infallible. I've been angry with her and I've been upset with her but I've never disliked her. No matter what, you knew that she was free. She was doing it from choices that maybe you didn't like. She was doing it from a place of freedom. And while you might not like the choices you couldn't fault her for the reasons of making them sometimes. That's all I really have to say.
They talk about the two times people die. You know, when your physical body leaves the earth and the last time someone says your name or tells a story about you. Betsy is going to live for a long long time. She's not going to be forgotten by anybody who really knew her. Colin and I will probably be sharing Betsy stories when we are sixty or seventy years old together. Talking about out younger years. I'm definitely going to miss her. Betsy was good people.
[Question from Jackson about how she felt about her time in jail] 14:32
CORY CROSON: She did share that opinion. When I corresponded with her both times that she was in jail for an extended period of time she was glad that she was able to get clean in there. She had all sorts of plans for when she got out and she would work her way through her situation by exercising and giving herself something to do physically. She would create art, even in jail and she'd mail it to me. She agreed that it helped and in some cases she needed it. Betsy never treated her addiction like it was some shameful secret and I don't think she would want anyone else to either. She owned everything about herself. She recognized it for the problem it was but she didn't shy away from the reality that it was and [from] it's gravity.
COLIN TURNER: This is Colin Turner. I've known Betsy since I was sixteen, seventeen years old. This is so weird to do. I always envied her. In our group of friends I was always the one that was sensible and responsible. But every time I was with her, she made me have fun. She made me let that guard down and stop trying to be the adult in our situations. Even though I'm only a year older than them, I always felt like the mom, “lets make sure we're drinking water!” We all definitely did things with Betsy when we were younger.
We didn't all go down the same path. The last two years or so I did distance myself just because of her addiction and you know my husband, he's been clean for seven years. It stays with you, your addiction. Even being around someone using makes your stomach hurt, makes you want to use and I was becoming more adult. I was married and trying to start my life and I feel horrible that I wasn't there for her. I still love her. I still think she's great. I still hoop and think about her every time that I do. I still have the hoop that she made me. I love that she did whatever she fucking wanted. In a way, that was her downfall in the end. I think that she'd still be happy with the way that everything has gone, honestly. That's all I can say.
YASMINE VIELLE: My name is Yasmine Vielle. I knew Betsy when she was fifteen, sixteen years old. This is short, but she was an absolutely magical person. She drew people to her in such a way that was remarkable. And as this has been said before. but we can agree on it that she did bring people out of their shell and what was holding them back. She's done that to me and I think to everyone at this table. It's remarkable that a person can have that type of magic within them. I saw her Friday night maybe about fourteen hours before I heard [that she had overdosed]. And she looked very happy and just dancing. She hugged me and kissed me on the face. When you're around her, she did put you in a good mood. Even if you weren't, she smacked your butt and hugged you in a very Betsy way. A very unique way... I'll miss her.
ADAM STEFFLER: This is Adam Steffler again. I also think It's also worth saying, or pointing out, that out even though she was clean, looked good, was feeling good, her life had changed for the better where she didn't have this physical addiction any more, and she was dealing with the mental addiction I guess in healthy ways by not using. This says something about the insidiousness of the drug and how tough addiction is and how it really gets its claws into you. The night before, you know potentially five hours before she overdosed, a couple hours before she overdosed, she was looking good, feeling good. Clean. You know its just, that pull is so strong that no matter how much she knew, and how much she had already gone through, and you know thought getting clean, going through jail was the silver lining. going to jail was something, her mom thought it saved her life. Betsy might have thought something pretty similar. It saved her from going down a darker path with it. It just goes to show how much people struggle and no matter how good you're doing or no matter how strong you feel or what you're portraying to others, there's always pain inside. There's always, there's that pull that she just couldn't or wouldn't or didn't want to say no to this time. It's really sad. It worries me.
I've lost my friend, my best friend who had been clean for five or six years. Just relapsed a year and a half ago. He got himself cleaned up again. Now he's probably doing better than he has in his life. We talked the other day. He's running five miles a day and cooking meals for himself. He's getting his life really, he's doing better than I thought he ever would be doing. More adult than I thought him to be. It just worries me, I could get that same call.
No matter how good you're doing there's always that fear. Something she didn't say no to that night. That's one of the last decisions she ever made because of it. The finality of that. It's really scary to me and really unfortunate. That dichotomy of doing good, but. I'm sure in her mind she wasn't thinking, 'here I go again, I'm gonna down this dark path again, things are gonna get bad.' You know it might have just been a one time thing, we'll never know. In her own mind. That just really really bums me out. In her own mind it was preventable. She knew better and could have made a different decision that night. While I don't want to try to lay blame at her feet... the decision was hers. Even though it might have been made subconsciously in her own mind. It might not have been the physical conscience saying it, 'here I go again.' But it was something she couldn't say know to and that's really scary and really sad. I hope she wasn't dealing with a lot of pain the last night she was alive. What ever drew her back to that or, you know, made her want to use again...
JACKSON: So we don't know that there was any particular stressful thing?
If there was something else, nobody's willing to speak up about it.
END FIRST RECORDING
[We all talked a lot off the record]
BEGIN SECOND RECORDING
COREY CROSON: Betsy was loved by more people than she or I will ever know. She did a lot to protect the people she really cared about from having to experience her struggle with addiction and drag them through it with her. But that's not really something you can stop and whether she knew it or not, we were right there with her. It was, it was hard but there were times when she was able to get through it and it proves a strength we all knew she had.
ADAM STEFFLER: I just with she'd reached out that night to somebody.
JACKSON: She wasn't in any kind of treatment, was she?
ADAM STEFFLER: No, she was headstrong like that...
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